This will not convince anyone to change their mind. However, I need to get it put down in words to make things clear in my head. I also need to just get it written. If you are a writer, you understand.
This week (last week of Nov. 2018) a bunch of people gathered at the US-Mexico border. Those on the south side started throwing stuff at the folks on the US side. Rocks mostly, but other stuff too.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/26/18112474/tear-gas-border-patrol-caravan-rocks
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/26/18112474/tear-gas-border-patrol-caravan-rocks
The US responded with tear gas.
This is a measured and appropriate response. Have a splodey head if you like and feel free to rip my argument to shreds, but hear me out first.
1) There were children in this group.
Some are decrying the US response because of the children. My question is WTH were children doing in the middle of a riot in the first place? A riot? Yes. If this happened in a street in a city, it'd be called a riot. Again, why are children in a riot?
A bunch of people throwing rocks and other stuff at armed government personnel is a riot. Change my mind? Unlikely.
Children learn from adults. The kids see adults throwing rocks at people in the US. WTH do you think this is teaching the kids? If you saw one of your kids throwing rocks at someone, what would you do?
In parts of the world children who learn to throw rocks "graduate" to firing rockets.
This same week in a neighboring community a man was murdered and one of those accused of doing the shooting is a 15 YOA.
Children. Kids need to learn that actions have consequences. Adults too.
2) This happened at a border.
Yeah, it's an international border. So? Borders are artificial barriers created by man to say "Hey. That's your side. This'n is mine." Someone shows up on the street outside your house and starts throwing rocks, what would you do?
This is simply a matter of magnitude. A border is a border is a border is a border.
Those of you who demand equality across the board (I do not), get over this. This is equality across the board.
3) No one was killed in the tear gas response.
Cain killed Abel with a rock and it's been going on ever since. Even today.
4) It needed to be stopped.
Yanno what happens when you let things go? They go. Yanno what happens if you do not kill a rabid animal? It infects more animals. The rabid analogy is going to offend someone. Good. Be offended. Point remains. Volatile situations can either be contained or allowed to expand and create even more destruction.
The tear gas response told those at the border: It is time for you to stop. If you don't, we're going to step up the response. Tear gas was a mild response to a situation that was - yes it had - been brewing for a few days. Sometimes you just gotta stop things. You step up the response until things are stopped.
Had this not been stopped, how far would it go?
Appeasement does not work.
5) These people want to come to the US.
My opinion on immigration is not changed by this instance at the border. Despite what you believe about my thoughts on immigration (and you are likely wrong), I still say this was an appropriate response. I also say let 'em in after some vetting.
We have rules in this nation. Even as a minarchist, I believe in rules. Do not hurt anyone. That rule applies here. People who were throwing stuff were engaged in an attack. Attacks need to be stopped. We do not tolerate attacks on people (unless it is the government attacking people which is another blog entirely).
They wanna come here, they need to play by the rules. Our rules say throwing rocks at people is not allowed.
6) The US should have retreated.
Someone throwing rocks at you and your house. Retreat?
Ok, say you own a vacant lot, no structures. You do not live on the lot. Someone starts throwing rocks at you on the lot. Retreat? OK. They keep coming. Now what? You either call law enforcement (um, DUH, that's what happened here!) or you fight back (ditto.) The simple fact here is, law enforcement stepped in to stop the attacks. It's just a matter of scale once again.
Castle Ground.
Once you retreat, you have set a precedent. Sooner or later you run out of room. Start your defense immediately and make it clear that any advance is gonna be costly.
Again, appeasement does not work.
7) There is a fence in the way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tNFK7RHQZg - This one is stunning.
8) This is legal.
I looked it up in the Geneva conventions. (NB - I have a degree in political science so yes, I am a scientist where politics are concerned.) Tear gas is a "riot control" agent. While its use is proscribed in war (and we ain't at war with Mexico), its use in convincing rioters to find somewhere else is OK.
9) You don't have a frame of reference.
You get dismissive with me because of this. I extend the same courtesy to you.
Ever been in a riot?
I've been shot twice and shot at a third time. How about you? Ever had someone come to your house as a paid assassin to kill you? I have.
Only one (that I know of) person who'll read this has a suitable frame of reference. He says the response was inappropriate. Yet he still packs a heater.
Until and unless you have faced down someone who is attacking you, can actually kill you with that attack and at that moment doesn't have a problem with killing you, you don't have a frame of reference. Rocks are a lethal weapon, see links above.
You will tell me I can't understand some things because I lack a frame of reference. You are correct. I am also correct.
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Hi. I welcome lively debate. Attack the argument. Go after a person in the thread, your comments will not be posted.